God bless America!

dummystupid · 9 days

thanks

dummystupid · 9 days

Yes yes yes, obvious logical fallacy in (no attacks) --> (successful TSA). However what I really trying to say (as I think you could have guessed) is that the TSA had at least some part in that result. After a decade without a bear sighting, it's hard to say the bear patrol was completely useless.

air travel dropped 6% in 2002 due to new TSA screenings

Now it's my turn to play logical fallacy. You're implying that hundreds of people died in a spectacular televised manner in air travel, but it was the bag searches that reduced ticket sales? I would argue just the opposite. The attacks scared people away from air travel, but the TSA, a constant human presence at airports, convinced people that the government had taken meaningful steps towards keeping them safe. Thankfully these measures kept the potential exodus from air travel down to just 6%.

Lacking rigorous statistical analysis from multiple environments, it is nigh-impossible to mathematically qualify which was the cause for that effect. So in the meantime, lets not try to attribute it to either without a more nuanced analysis.

Trying not to write to much here, I'd like to question your last point a little further, how exactly do they "make things worse"? That's a pretty strong statement compared to just not making things better.

dummystupid · 9 days

In general I agree with you; I personally am not so terrified of a terrorist attack that so as to thing we should completely alter the course of our nation to prevent one.

However, many Americans feel differently, and I can't really blame them for seeing an attack as an impermissible offense to our honor worth preventing at all costs. And then, once that feeling is taken as a given, things like the TSA are a pretty obvious next step.

I'm pretty sure some dude once said "The only thing to fear is fear itself". That quote seems pretty relevant about America's response. But we can't just wish away the facets of the American consciousness that led to the current situation, it takes a generation to change that, at best. All we can really do really do is look at our responses to the situation, and given the environment, the TSA seems a pretty reasonable response.

dummystupid · 9 days

Huh?!?

Well, looking at my last post, the latter two points were hardly factual assertions. They really don't beg any data whatsoever.

As to the first point, we have the Shoe Bomber and the Underwear Bomber, both of whom were forced to use complicated an impractical instruments due to screening procedures which would catch more effective conventional bombs.

Could you specify a little more just what you would like more backing on?

dummystupid · 9 days

(partially copied from another reply)

The unfortunate thing about measuring the success of an agency like the TSA is that many of its victories are attacks never even attempted. They also force would-be attackers to use contrived and difficult measures (like bombs in shoes and underwear) that make them more likely to be caught by others.

And it's also true that a whole lot of the reason the TSA is there is to make Americans feel safe. People were scared to fly after our country was attacked on 9/11, lots of people. While some Americans walk through scanners and think "wow, my rights are being impinged on right now", others walk through and think "thank God they're keeping us safe". Don't underestimate the value of that; 9/11 was an attack on the American psyche, body scanners are a part of our response.

dummystupid · 9 days

The unfortunate thing about measuring the success of an agency like the TSA is that many of its victories are attacks never even attempted. They also force would-be attackers to use contrived and difficult measures (like bombs in shoes and underwear) that make them more likely to be caught by others.

No, I didn't.

Come on, really? You and your friends didn't feel that way on an issue, so no one did? really?!?!

That this "feeling is prevalent" doesn't make it correct.

It's just that, a feeling. It's an opinion on the gray issue of "what measures are worth it to increase security". Unlike the nutritional value of carrots, there is no clear cut correct or incorrect.

dummystupid · 9 days

No offense, but I don't really understand how the metaphor applies to the situation, could you explain it for me? (I'm being completely serious here, not sarcastic)

dummystupid · 9 days

I would like even one example of a successful terrorist attack on US soil in the last decade, please.

And imagine the impact such an attack would have; you can't think people in the world aren't trying.

dummystupid · 9 days

lotsoluck posted an article above about Israeli security that I think makes it brutally clear how their system is completely counter to American values (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2011/01/whats_so_great_about_israeli_security.html )

As I said there:

"What makes Israeli airport security so great? Profiling. With the exception of people on its terrorist watch list, the U.S. Transportation and Security Administration treats all travelers about the same."[continues to explain how Isreali security splits everyone into groups]

That policy absolutely crosses the line into something very much against the American way of governing.

dummystupid · 9 days

Did you actually read that article:

What makes Israeli airport security so great? Profiling. With the exception of people on its terrorist watch list, the U.S. Transportation and Security Administration treats all travelers about the same. [continues to explain how Isreali security splits everyone into groups]

That policy absolutely crosses the line into something very much against the American way of governing.

dummystupid · 9 days

Well I'd point to the absence of a successful terrorist attack on American soil in a decade, but then I'd end up sounding like a Republican.

The thing people don't understand about the TSA is that it's not meant to be a barrier impenetrable to all evil-doers. It's one of many, many components, including Air Mashalls, the CIA, the FBI, the DHS, the NSA, the local forces, and citizen vigilance that all combine to make it very, very difficult to carry out an attack.

Yeah, sure, waiting in line at the airport sucks, and body scanners are a libertarians worst nightmare. But on 9/11 the American people got slapped in the face, and spoke overwhelming that we were willing to deal with some shit to avoid getting slapped again. Spending time on Reddit might lead you to believe otherwise, but this feeling is still prevalent around the country.

ZaJoCa · 9 days

If anyone else thinks the 100,000 people from Staph statistic seems a bit unbelievable, here's the actual quote form the abstract of the source:

The estimated deaths associated with HAIs in U.S. hospitals were 98,987: of these, 35,967 were for pneumonia, 30,665 for bloodstream infections, 13,088 for urinary tract infections, 8,205 for surgical site infections, and 11,062 for infections of other sites.

With "HAIs" being Healthcare-Associated Infections, which doesn't seem to mean just Staph.

dummystupid · 9 days

So a metal detector that won't catch the non-metallic bombs and ceramic weapons we've seen in recent attacks? Well it's okay we'll get the most effective detector money can buy. Awww shit, that's a Body Scanner, and it still doesn't catch everything.

Or just a good guard looking for "suspicious behavior". (Two weeks later) "AMA young, able-bodied Muslim man who gets pulled out at the airport every time". Tell me what exactly constitutes suspicious behavior? Are you looking for the word "profiling".

I'm not saying the TSA is a great agency. But the problem at stake is SO SO SO much more difficult than that it's not even funny.

linford86 · 10 days

So you'd say that it's acceptable for a school to display the Ten Commandments, but only if it is in a strictly academic sense under the study of religion (and religions should most definitely be studied)?

Sounds like we agree with each other. All that's left is to quibble over just what Giles County was trying to do, and there's no way that'll be a productive argument.

linford86 · 10 days

It would be completely alright to post the Commandments on the wall as part of a "Display of Religions", or include them in the "Spotlight on Christianity in America", but to enshrine them next to the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution clearly implies they hold the same importance. In a secular public school, the American ideals should be both studied and taught, whereas religious ideas should only be studied; religion should be taught at home.
Even if the FSM had some noodley commandments, and EVERY SINGLE STUDENT at that school worshiped His Noodliness, He should still be kept out of the classroom (only studied, not taught). The percentage of people following any religion is completely irrelevant; that's nothing to form a basis of legislation on about religion in schools. Our forefathers brilliantly sidestepped this issue by establishing that there shall be NO established national religion, citizen participation regardless.

vtmeta · 12 days

Yeah, that class should be great. I spent some time with the Programming Team last Fall (I kinda dipped out this Spring), and the policy was that any problem we can't figure out should be sent to Godmar.

That class came out of a desire to formalize our Programming team with the CS department. UVA has had a class for the team for a while and it was hurting us! From what I understand they're hoping to also eventually make a 4000-level class for it too. All you CS nerds on the thread: go check out Programming Team!!

vtmeta · 12 days

I've honestly never seen a professor do half what that man does for a class. I've had Prof. Chang too, and he famously sets the bar for that.

So many times some fool would post an obvious question on the forum at 1:00 AM on a thursday and Back would reply 20 min later with a 3 paragraph response, complete with citations and relevant further reading.

Student: "Hey, I was wondering about..."

Fucking Godmar:"Oh, check out this email I sent to the libc team on the subject"

vtmeta · 12 days

I am going to personally request a physical copy of my A and put on my goddamn fridge.

Godmar Back could probably make it happen. The man is a fucking wizard of Systems.

Wertle · 16 days

go get off Reddit and study for finals

lukea14 · 19 days

Fellow VT student here. I'm not trying to offer an opinion on the Stadium Woods (I'm not informed enough), but I do think you're being a bit harsh on the University policy towards the football program.

The football program here is a net source of profit. Not only do your tuition dollars not fund the football program, but the football program funds other, less glamorous sports!

Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmoney/2011/02/24/acc-football-not-cash-cow-like-sec-and-big-ten/ (the ACC is actually noted as being less profitable, but we're on the upswing)

froststare · 23 days

I'm not sure if this was directed at my comment or not, but if it was, I think what I said applies just fine.

If a bunch of people you agree with and respect form a secret ruling coalition, it's an awesome, clandestine force of good in your university.

If a bunch of people you disagree with for such a thing, they're fratty douches being assholes.

So as advice to a Freshman thinking about Fraternities, focus on the people, their personalities, their morals, and the way they conduct themselves. There are lots of awesome people in lots of awesome fraternities out there, don't get caught up in names and catchphrases.

froststare · 23 days

Fraternities and sororities are just a way social groups organize themselves in American colleges. If the frat/sorority is composed of people you consider to be assholes, they probably run a chapter you wouldn't be interested in. On the other hand a chapter full of people you think are cool is a gateway to a fucking awesome four years of college.

Look through the organization and the principles and all that. They matter, but it's really all about the men or woman that comprise the chapter.

froststare · 23 days

You can't blame the kite club from turning down people uninterested in kites.

"Hey you should give kites a try, they guys and girls in the kite club are awesome" (Nothing wrong here)

Most of the time alcohol is just a social activity to be treated like any other. It's only when people are abusing it that it deserves special treatment. As horrible as abuse is, most people who drink don't have problems with it.

shvffle · 24 days

OH OH OH I WAS THERE LAST YEAR!!!

It sounds like people have the building side pretty well covered, so let me give you a slightly different perspective on the classes. People have very different experiences depending on their teacher, but this was mine:

I had Instr. Kuhn first semester, the class was taught as a fairly serious mix of sociology/psychology. We looked at leadership as an academic subject through different theories and case studies. As much as the sounds lame, I actually loved it. I learned lots of things that I've found to be completely valid in my leadership experiences since.

The second semester I had Prof. Grohs. He was that stereotypical hippie professor in the best way. He had a truly unique way of leading class that's something I try to emulate whenever I'm leading a meeting or group session. His class was based on community service and growth. There wasn't much day-to-day class work but you were really expected to make a serious contribution outside of class. It was awesome!

So yes, I recommend the shit out of the RLC.

Wertle

TROPHY CASE

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